My Decision, My Choice: Personal Stories of Courage from Our Community
No two journeys through hereditary cancer risk are the same. In this session, BRCA carriers shared the different paths they have taken in prevention and screening. Speakers reflected on what shaped their decisions, from medical advice to personal values, and discussed the challenges, insights, and how they live with those choices today.
The discussion covered different approaches to surgery, screening, and lifestyle, as well as the key factors influencing decision-making, including medical guidance, personal values, and life context, along with how these choices evolve over time.
Q&A
Speaker 1: Can I just take a quick moment and just acknowledge our speakers and it's not only courageous what you've been through, but to, you know, get in front of everybody and share your story is immensely courageous. So, so thank you from me, and I'm sure from everyone else here, and I'm sure they'll have their own things to say but it's just really important to share and to hear it from each other so. So thank you very much for standing up and taking the time and being so vulnerable.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Any comments, questions, anything that you'd like to bring up in the group tonight.
Participant 1: Hi. Yes, I'm sorry I'm not on camera. I'm actually in a gym walking with this on time. Really embarrassing. I just want to say thank you. I really want to thank you for having this. I have kind of questions. You talk about the stories about the breast, and I'm thinking about my cousin has had this and that's how it got to let us know it's in the family and have a large family as well. And I took the test making me, what's no big deal. And then not thinking it's possible I got it. I do have it. I'm trying to decide and I've been on top. I think I'm on top of getting on my And anyways, I, I'm getting some misinformation I'm just trying to understand. Oh, there are ovaries, I was told that you can't have, you won't have, you can't take HRT. you said that you wouldn't be able to take HRT but I thought it is possible so I'm just wondering if there's a little bit more clarity if you guys have information on that.
Speaker 3: So hi everyone just to remind you who I am so I'm a genetic counselor with the hereditary cancer program. My name is Jen. And I think this is Rebecca your question was just about whether hormone replacement therapy is an option once you've had your ovaries removed. So hopefully that's, yeah, yeah, so it is actually an option. When you've had your ovaries out before menopause, because you're actually removing so much of that hormone that you can do hormone replacement to manage symptoms. And some of you may know, through our high risk clinic, there's management options there. And also through Dr. Lisa Dawson's survivorship clinic she helps manage sort of what are the options and looking at your, your personal health, personal medical history. And what makes sense in terms of hormone replacement options so I think there's still a lot of misinformation out there about that that because there's a breast cancer risk you can't have HRT. And we've learned that that's, that's not the case that there are actually options for women to have HRT now to bring them closer to a natural menopause. And reduce some of the signs and symptoms of a surgical menopause and knowing there's benefit to things like your heart and your bones and your sexual function and all sorts of other things so that is that is an option for most.
Participant 1: Thank you. And the other thing I wanted to ask those. I know this week is I guess voluntary whoever gets on but is there a way I can meet some of you, I can have these conversations.
Speaker 4: I mean, for me anyways. The answer is yes, and then maybe I'm not sure the best way to connect my contact info, but maybe Catriona, we can discuss that. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Rebecca why don't you reach out to me after the session. I won't have your email so just reach out to me at the info at the BRCAinBC email address, and I'll, I'll work on that.
Speaker 5: I'm also happy to meet with anyone that would like. I'm in the Vancouver area I've met with a lot of people just from like personal connections I know I shared a lot at my work and then it turns out my boss had a friend that was going through it, and we just went for coffee just talk about like different experiences different surgeons. And, yeah, it's always nice to meet people in person to talk through it feels more. Yeah, more connection.
Speaker 6: There is also I don't know if I am recommending this or just giving the information that there is a BRCA sisterhood Canada, Facebook group. I find going in there very anxiety producing personally, but that being said, every once in a while, if I'm thinking about a specific question and I don't have access to someone right in person, it is a place where I've been able to get some information and find out you know other people in the area, who might be willing to connect as well.
Speaker 5: It's also helpful to search you can search like previous posts, but yeah, I wouldn't recommend checking it daily.
Speaker 1: I just want to quickly circle back to Jen what you were speaking about in terms of the HRT because I think this is a really challenging one I mean obviously understanding what the differences can be that sometimes I mean obviously Heather got information that it might not be recommended for her like what would the differences have maybe been there. And also, I mean, as someone who's on HRT now like, but I, I don't have my breasts, but I, I still have my ovaries I'm just kind of at that medium stage. But I found it really challenging at times because a lot of doctors are really confused about what my situation is, what's safe for me, luckily I have a GP who went and did the homework, but how does, how do we deal with that as patients, you know, I mean, what do you, what's your take.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a fantastic question. And I think what you're speaking to is, is the reality that there are a lot of providers that that that don't know the up to date sort of research on this. And I think in our society we've talked so long about, you know, exogenous hormones as being like really scary and a really big risk factor for breast cancer. And that's kind of carried through into thinking about this group where, where we've removed ovaries before menopause. But I think a lot of providers look at the risk of breast cancer and think well that that can't be a good idea right to put hormones in when somebody has a higher risk of breast cancer. Sort of fortunately, in terms of how long we've known about the BRCA1 and 2 genes, we have a lot of data now about cancer risks and what makes a difference and what doesn't. And there's really good safety data out there now about hormone replacement post oophorectomy. So once the ovaries are out, if you still have your ovaries, then HRT is usually not something that that people recommend having. But it's that premenopausal ovarian surgery that's removed so much of that natural hormone that then you're you're able to go on on HRT. Yeah, your situation may be a bit different because of the surgery you've had. But I'm just thinking if someone's had no risk reducing surgeries, I think it's it's often, you know, less HRT if you haven't had your ovaries out. Yeah, that makes sense. Question about what we do about it. I mean, I don't think that should all land with patients. I think that's also our role as care providers within this space is to continue educating. And I know Lisa Dawson is a big champion for that and an advocate for looking at options. There's also I can hear her in my head saying there's also non hormonal options for people who don't feel comfortable taking HRT. There's other types of medications that have worked really well to reduce symptoms of menopause after ovaries come out. So I think the best thing or I don't know, maybe this is my personal view. I'll put it out there. But as a patient is to is to meet with the people who are in the know and then talk about your own situation and what your options are. And then so eloquently put by Tina, Heather and Joanna, you know, do what feels right for you once you've got the right information in hand. So I think we're lucky in B.C. to have people like Dr. Dawson in the survivorship clinic. And, you know, she's a menopause expert. She knows a lot about these things and can talk people through what their options are. Just a few thoughts.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was interesting. I was recently at an event and there was a female doctor, a local doctor who's such an advocate for women's health. And now that HRT is like being, you know, more not encouraged, but more easily accessed for women. And I asked her directly about this and she's a very smart lady. And she was like, yeah, no, not for you. And I was like, oh, OK, but here we are. Like, it's just so interesting how even when it's someone who really cares and who is really educated for the general population, still might not know the most up to date for us specifically. So it's a good reminder.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think it's I think it's an innocent ignorance. Right. It's just a kind of applying knowledge that they know in their own area of practice and maybe not being up to speed on what we would say for people in a different situation. So, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think if we can, you know, through groups like this or through the Hereditary Cancer Program, just sort of help people connect with those that are in the know and can be the most helpful, that's what we aim to do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess I guess I'm a big advocate of not being afraid to get a second opinion, especially if something just doesn't sound right to you. That's that's never a criticism of a doctor, in my opinion. They can't be experts on everything. It's just impossible these days. So if something either doesn't fit or you just want want to know or you just want some reassurance that, yes, this is in fact correct. I just think people, you know, you should feel empowered to do that.
Speaker 3: Agreed 100%.
Speaker 2: We did receive a question sent in the chat. So I'm going to go ahead and read that out. It says curious about something. My sister spent many years trying to keep her breasts while BRCA2 positive and active breast cancer. Her desire to keep her breasts ultimately cost her life. Some ladies want to keep them, yet others finding out about the gene consider the breasts an enemy. Are these reactions common?
Speaker 5: I've met a few people who have felt like very strongly that their breasts are part of who they are. And I think it just takes time. I think until you know what you want to do and everyone's decision is going to be their own based on their own experience. But I think if you I'm assuming maybe that if you feel like that, for example, but you know, you also want to get surgery, then I think counseling or therapy is one of the best ways to kind of just have a channel to talk through it with someone else. And be able to name some of the feelings as well. But I do think it's quite common. I think that's part of why a lot of people choose the options that they do or choose one breast at a time or is just that different feeling.
Speaker 1: Do you want to quickly just in case anyone on the call here is aware of what the options are through inspire health in terms of counseling, maybe let folks know.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. So at inspire health, we do provide one on one counseling support for folks who are at high genetic risk. So a certain amount of sessions that are provided to each individual who's connected with us. We also do have support when it comes to group sessions. So both both counseling led as well as beyond that. So we've got a full clinical team, including supportive care physicians. We've got exercise physiologists and dietitians as well. But as far as the counseling support goes, it would be those one on one sessions as well as those group sessions that are led by the counseling team.
Participant 1: So those counseling sessions, are they covered under insurance or is it something that because of the risk?
Speaker 2: Yes. So wonderful follow up question. Everything that we do is completely free of charge. So no no fee associated with those.
Speaker 1: And what's the best way for someone to connect with your team if they if they would like to take advantage of that?
Speaker 2: I will go ahead and make sure that we have all of the contact information. I'll also throw our email address into the chat as well as our address. So I'll make sure that we're all leaving the session with that information. You can reach us by phone, by email or of course, by going to our website. We have bookable links that live there as well.
We have a few more questions that have come into the chat, but Jen, I saw you unmute yourself. Go ahead.
Speaker 3: Thanks for those questions. Maybe I'll just have a quick reflection on what Tina said, I think. So I've been doing meeting with people and families for about 20 years this spring. And there are lots of people who really have a lot of identity within their breasts and they choose screening. And I think what you said, Tina, before really resonates. It's it's almost like experience of screening and how that is for people compared to how they identify themselves with their breasts. And right now in B.C., we have more people still choosing screening than surgery. So I think it is very much like what all of you have said is that it's it's just about choice and figuring out what is the right thing for you. And there's there isn't a right or wrong decision. It's balancing out your values and what you're ready or not to do. And we have some people who have, you know, 20, 30 years of surveillance and they're still really happy with screening. So I think, you know, that is still certainly an option that is supported for people if that's where their values lead them.
Speaker 2: Let me just see these questions here. So I am just curious if when making the decision to get a double mastectomy, was there an option to get reconstruction later or does that decision have to be made at the same time as getting the double mastectomy?
Speaker 4: If I remember correctly, and this is a good example of you got a lot of information at once, but I filtered what was kind of important to me. I believe there is an option and it really depends as well, because some people actually do not have the option to do it at the same time. I think it also depends on your health, your condition, et cetera. But if I and someone might need to correct me, I think there's always an option to do it later.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was one thing that I thought about and I had talked to some people who because they were dealing with an active cancer diagnosis, it wasn't an option to go right away, even to get expanders. If you do delay, you're essentially waking up flat, at least at the beginning anyway, if you have expanders, because they won't fill up. Like if it's a double stage, like not direct to implant, it'll still be waking up flat. One of the reasons why I ended up deciding to just go straight to flat was that the scar situation will be better. Obviously, if you get like expanders and implants and that kind of thing, and then you decide to go flat, they're dealing with extra skin and potentially trying to sew up scar tissue. Whereas if you just go directly flat, the scars are flatter. One thing that I had also heard from people, and this is very doctor specific and not my experience at all, but depending on where you are and depending on your surgeon, if you mentioned that you might want to get implants later, sometimes they leave dog ears of skin. So I think my recommendation would be to be careful what you mentioned to your surgeon, if that's not truly how you feel. I had heard from someone, this is in Eastern Canada, but still in Canada, that they had mentioned that they might want to get implants later and the surgeon left big dog ears in their armpits. And then to fix that, you have to do a second surgery. So when I did mine, I was quite clear to like, not that you should have to monitor what you say, but to really leave no doubt in the surgeon's mind if that is how you feel. Keep those kind of thought processes to maybe speak to your friends and family and your counsellors and stuff with, because those face time with the surgeons are so limited that what you say, they take at face value, but definitely an option.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that those are really good points. The only thing I know, not as a caution, I mean, I don't think this should change anyone's decision making, but I think it's important to be aware. In BC, at least, I'm sure this is probably true elsewhere in Canada, but at least in BC. We have priority lists for reconstruction because reconstruction is so limited and it's a much more specialized surgery so there's much fewer surgeons who can do it than the mastectomy piece. So what I was told was that, and at least this was true, I don't know if it's true today but it was true a little while ago, is that you end up on the lowest priority for reconstruction if you choose to have the mastectomy first and then delay reconstruction to later because you are the lowest risk now. We're considered moderate risk as BRCA positive individuals so it just means your wait could be quite long. I think it's just important to know that.
Speaker 2: Thank you for all that insight. There's another question here in the chat that reads, how do I talk to my sisters about getting tested for the gene, one of whom has breast cancer and is currently going through chemotherapy and will be tested after treatment, and one other sister who doesn't have cancer, about getting tested for the BRCA gene. My middle sister doesn't find it priority, the one who doesn't have the cancer. I find it difficult to talk to my sisters about the importance of getting tested. My dad got tested and I know he carries the gene as my founder number is Akinashi Jewish. Both my sisters have kids. I have decided to do screening and not do preventative surgery.
Speaker 6: One thing I'll say is that just being given the information and the choice was so important. My mom really wanted me to get tested, but her pressuring me made me want to get tested work less because the fear piece became more loud than the ability to want that information. So I think it's really important to communicate the option and really let people choose for themselves. Because for me, anytime there's pressure to talk about it, to make a decision, I just push those people away because I'm like, I need a space where I can listen to myself. That's been my experience.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And maybe to add, I have an older sister and two brothers. I was the only one who got my testing done right away. And even my mom, when I got mine done right away, I can tell she was hesitant. She was, you know, okay, great. She wasn't like telling everybody to get it done. But maybe to add to that, what I learned is it is everybody's own choice as well. And I do think education is really all that you can give your family. But ultimately, like even for my mom, for her, she had a lot of resentment because she didn't want to know that she passed it on to her kids. Right. And again, I respect that. But for my siblings, I mean, this is a whole different topic. For my brothers, they know they should get it done, but they're just not doing it. Yeah, I've given them like avenues. I've given them the forms. But I think, again, to Heather's point, I agree. Giving them the information is really the best that we can do.
Speaker 5: I wanted to jump in on my family's experience as well, because I think it, maybe the timing of it was really important for us. My mom's mom had ovarian cancer and passed away from it. So when my mom had breast cancer, it was an immediate red flag. She has three sisters. And I think at this point, maybe all of them have been tested. One of them has had breast cancer twice, has the gene. Another one is tested negative. And the other one, I can't remember, I think she might have tested negative eventually. And then there's, I have some female cousins as well, and only one of them has been tested from the side that's positive. Their rationale is just they don't want to know, which was challenging for our family, because we felt like knowing was the most important thing. The reason why my mom wanted us to get tested so young was because when we were trying to get life insurance, like when we turned 18, the insurance company knew that she had the gene and they knew that she had cancer. So they treated us like we have the gene and we're going to get cancer as well. So we were paying premiums. When my mom actually tried to get me life insurance the first time I was 16. And so when you're under 18, I don't know if this is still true, but at the time they don't charge premiums, they just deny you. So I got denied life insurance because I hadn't had gene testing and they were just assuming that I had it because I couldn't prove them wrong. So that was part of why we ended up just getting testing so early, even knowing that there was no screening options because worst case scenario, they treat you the same as they already are. But best case scenario, you can prove that you don't have it. That was really important for us knowing that yeah, it wasn't going to change anything in the immediate future. But also my brother is trans and for him, it bumped him to the top of the top surgery waitlist, which was really advantageous for him and also for getting hysterectomy and stuff like that because the waitlist is really long for that. But his happened once he did like all the, they have to do a lot more counseling screening, which is kind of funny. Once he went through all of that, it was like within a year.
Speaker 3: I wanted to say that I think we obviously want to encourage genetic testing in families and the whole reason, well, not the whole reason, one of the reasons we go to work every day is to prevent the number of people coming through the doors of PC cancer in the future. And that's how we're going to do that is by finding people at risk and hopefully helping them to either have very early detection where less treatment's needed or preventing a cancer. And for many families, we don't see relatives come forward for testing. It's actually maybe one or two additional people beyond the first person who had the gene found in the family that come in and we're still exploring why that is. So it's a very common story, I guess is what I wanted to share, that for many different complex and varied reasons, people may not be ready or may never be interested in that information. One thing that has, you know, this doesn't always work, but one thing that's been helpful, I think in some families, if people aren't ready to know for sure one way or the other, if they have a 50% chance of that genetic change, like their parent has the gene or their sibling, they're still eligible for all the screening that we would recommend for them if they tested positive. So it has been a way for some people to get their breast MRIs, to screen their prostate, to do all the things that they would do if they were positive without actually having the blood test to say, you know, for sure. Obviously it gets tricky with surgeries. It's harder to think about a surgery if you don't know for sure you have it. But sometimes that's maybe like an opening of the door just to still be doing some screening while you're thinking about testing or if testing is not of interest.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Another question that's come through the chat is one surgery reconstruction an option in BC?
Speaker 5: I think this will be dependent to you and your surgeon. It wasn't something that was offered to me, but I know that it has happened in other cases. I think it's very situation specific to your surgeon and to you.
Speaker 4: Sorry, what was the question? I didn't quite hear the question.
Speaker 2: Is one surgery reconstruction an option in BC? I think a single surgery.
Speaker 4: Meaning the double mastectomy and then the reconstruction?
Speaker 1: I think meaning direct to implant possibly. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Italicus is one surgery, right? Usually?
Speaker 1: Not always. Yeah. I mean, it can be in my case, it technically was, but usually they have what they call the keep it alive surgery, like the flap part where they transport it. And then you are meant to go back for a second surgery to make everything pretty again. So if you have a good result aesthetically, then it can be one surgery. But the focus is really on the transport of that flap.
Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah. So if I understand the question correctly, mine was one surgery. It was very long, almost 12 hours. So that's kind of the risk. It is a very long surgery. Mine in general, I would say was very successful. So the connection was very good. I had to go back in the next day, just minor issue, there was just too much blood accumulated. So they had to drain that out. But it had nothing to do with the actual surgery. But again, to my earlier point, it really depends on your health condition. Luckily, I'm generally pretty healthy. So I was able to do that. But I have to admit, there's, I was very anxious about the thought of being under for 11 hours.
Speaker 1: I think regards to the direct to implant, I would definitely suggest looking back. I'm not an expert on this. I'm not a plastic surgeon. But looking back at some of our older recordings that we've done, that go into detail about the different reconstruction options. And so that was delivered by Dr. Kathryn Isaac, who is an expert on this topic. But I think the main factors have to do with your original size, how much skin you have, if that's how healthy and thick that skin flap is. So basically, no one can really guarantee that you're eligible for a one and done direct to implant surgery until your plastic surgeon actually looks at you and looks at what they're working with.
Speaker 2: Thank you. And another message here in the chat, if I opt for implants, oh, this is actually similar. If I opt for implants, is it a one and done surgery? So let us know if we haven't quite answered what you were speaking to there. Or do I continue to test and have to do a redo implants in seven years or so? And then there's a follow up to that saying, if I get a hysterectomy done as well, what is next? How do I stay on top or ahead of developing cancer somewhere else in the body?
Speaker 1: I mean, these are very specific questions. And this session can't possibly offer folks direct medical advice. So just being clear about that. I don't remember the exact figure. Implants generally do need replacement. I do know that much, but not always. So what I mean by not always is sometimes people just manage to have a really hardy implant. And so I mean, I think Dr. Isaac mentioned someone having their implants with no replacement for like 20 years, which is pretty wild. But if we're going with the non-exceptional cases, most of the time, I think there does need to be a replacement at a certain point in time. And that's just going to depend on your individual situation, how long that is.
Speaker 5: I can try to remember from what I was told as well. I think it was, there's like a risk chart of like after a certain amount of years, there's a risk of rupture. And if it's a silicone implant, you maybe can't even tell it's ruptured. So it's like very much your, I think it's still kind of sounds like your choice of when you want to try and replace it, knowing the risk. So if you wanted to try and keep it for 40 years, maybe they'd let you. But it seems like it's, to me, I took it as like, I'm introducing another risk into my body. So I'm like, I would need to manage that risk accordingly to my values.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very good point. Jump in about the, I'm not sure if continue to test in that question means continue to screen, which we wouldn't do. So once you've had your double mastectomy, they wouldn't do any kind of breast screening. That's what you mean by continuing to test and then doing surgery again after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's also a question in here about once you've had both risk reducing surgeries, breast and ovarian, not everyone gets a hysterectomy. Sometimes if there's a strong family history, I think of uterine cancer, that will be recommended. But, you know, that's kind of between you and your doctor. There aren't any firm guidelines at the moment about any other screening except for, I think you can talk a little bit about this, Jen, about some of the changes that might be coming with BRCA2 and potentially if there's a pancreatic history, what they can do there. I don't believe that melanoma is standard anymore, those melanoma screenings. And I don't think there's any other cancers that have a significant enough relationship with BRCA that we have standard screenings.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, actually for both BRCA1 and BRCA2, if somebody has a close relative, like a sibling or a parent, with pancreatic cancer, then there is the option of going to talk to a gastroenterology specialist about pancreatic cancer screening. So it's something that's very much still in the, I guess I would say exploratory phase, but there is screening available. It's an ultrasound and MRI. So that's something that if you have a family history of pancreatic cancer is something to think about. I agree there isn't anything much beyond that that's clinical standard at this point. I think what's coming and what's exciting is there's a study, I think it might've been talked about at one of these sessions, but the CHARM2 study, which is starting to look at a blood test to screen for early cancers. And it's something that's being looked at for people with an inherited risk. So I think once you've had those two surgeries, if you've had your ovaries and tubes removed and your breasts, your cancer risks are dramatically reduced below general population. If you have pancreatic cancer in your family, maybe a bit more screening there. And then otherwise it's sort of research at this point to see if there's other things to screen for. But to your point, having a change in one of these genes doesn't mean you're at risk for all the different types of cancer. It's really specific to certain parts of the body, which these two surgeries would reduce your risk of significantly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if anyone here has heard of the, I'm going to say it, the CA125 test. We're actually going to put out a blog soon about why that's not recommended. And I hope that'll come out in one of the newsletters coming up and help just kind of clarify. Sometimes you hear about that happening down in the US, but there's really good reasons why it's not typically done and why it's not that helpful. So that's one thing just to know, and we'll have more details about that.
Speaker 5: On one of the other cancers that I guess is potentially elevated, but not enough to merit, I guess, maybe a BC-wide program is the melanoma one. I just asked my family doctor to go get a skin check, and she was like, I don't think it's a big deal, but also we can easily do a skin check. So I would say just ask if it's especially one that would be easy to do. Your family doctor is probably not going to say no, especially if you haven't done it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Tina. Yeah. And we do sometimes talk about the same sort of sun safety that you would have without a BRCA2 gene change could be something important for prevention. That's true. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Thanks. how many more questions have we got?
Speaker 2: We've just got one last one here, and then we can close things out. So there's a wondering if anyone has heard of the Goldilocks procedure, and if so, are there any surgeons who perform it in BC?
Speaker 5: I can speak to this because I actually asked for it. I guess it would have been about five years ago now. There is an actress, I believe, in the States. Her name is Angela. I can't remember her last name, but she got breast cancer when she was like 26. She lives in New York, and she got the Goldilocks procedure. She had what I described as like exactly what I wanted, just like a little something so that when you're wearing like a tank top, no one's going to be like, what's going on under there? And I was told like a flat out like no in BC. I think it's related to the fact that our surgeries are all covered. So obviously in the States, you can go find a surgeon that'll do your thing and maybe your insurance will cover it. But it sounds like in BC, our options are very standardized. I would assume if you really want it, you probably could go find a private plastic surgeon. But my answer was a flat out no. But I think also it changes. So I wouldn't stop you from asking. I feel like it gets brought up and then people will eventually approve it.
Speaker 1: For those who don't know, Tina, can you quickly clarify what a Goldilocks is?
Speaker 5: Yeah, from my understanding, it's like they try to create a small breast mound out of like fat grafting. So they'll look at, I guess, like your fat percentage and stuff as well. But it sounds like it can be quite lumpy if it does work. So it's not like you wouldn't look great topless maybe. You would probably need a bit of a padded bra from my understanding and from the few people that I've seen online, but obviously never met in person. But it sounds like it could be something that could fill out if when you go flat, you look quite concave. From the chatter online, it sounds like it would help solve some of that, that often a breast surgeon wouldn't be able to tell you because they don't know the shape of your ribs until they actually remove the breast tissue. So some people have like a strong breastbone in the front. And so if you look at them on the side when they go flat, it doesn't look concave. But some people, depending on their rib shape, they can look concave. The reason why I was interested in it is because I've been active pretty much my whole life and I was hearing horror stories of people getting their breast implants flipping and not being able to do push-ups and stuff like that. So I just wanted something where I can just be normal but not look... Well, I thought it was gonna be crazy. I don't look crazy for reference. I look very normal and I'm very happy with it. But yeah, I would say definitely ask because I think things change over time. And yeah.
Speaker 1: I think a very good reminder that a lot of the people who say had negative experiences or this has become an issue for them, you're gonna hear a lot more of that noise in online spaces. And you don't often just kind of hear about the good experiences and the people who just didn't have anything eventful. So sometimes it can make it seem like bad things happen more often than they actually do. And always good to remember that.
Speaker 2: Now we're at the end of our question asking periods. I'm just going to go ahead and stop recording. I guess you can't say unrecord. We want that recording. I'm going to stop the recording.